to linux or not to linux

[pghcollectibles]

i am thinking about setting up a computer in linux just to use for my webmastering stuff. i am self educated about everything i know since i learned microcomputers at school. ive always used windows. i know some DOS but not a whole lot. just like i know my scripting languages ive learned for making web pages.

what distribution is good? ubuntu is getting a lot of word of mouth marketing that ive been seeing and ive heard we run centos on our hm servers.

i also read pros and cons of gui vs cli but i really like gui and i can write scripts to run from a button if i wanted to. ive already integrated things ive learned about the way scripts work to write macros and stuff already. so i kind of want some kind of gui. is that a separate application that i have to download separately or are things like multimedia bundled with these distributions?

security concerns? what should be some stupid mistakes to look out for? shad i know this is your department. i would like to hear from a few different people to help me get a more experienced decision

[shadmego]

Most Linux flavors come with two gui programs. KDE and Gnome are probably the most popular.

If you are going to use Linux, which I would highly recommend, I would definitely start getting used to cli though, as that will be the easiest way to modify config files and troubleshoot network issues.

As far as security, Linux is substantially more secure than Windows -- even as far down as the kernel -- thought don't get confused, there are still many security risks involved in running a Linux box.

There is no easy way to explain why, but the fundamental difference between Linux and Windows is also the reason for the higher security in Linux.

Linux, in all its various flavors, is known as a modular operating system. What that means is that the kernel -- the core programs of the operating system -- is not tied to any other programs. In fact, anything you add to Linux is known as a module. Something that is not embedded in the kernel itself. It only uses the kernel with minimal system calls and such. This is important because if such a program contracts a virus, or becomes corrupt for any reason, uninstalling that program will not affect the kernel; thus keeping the kernel secure and safe from most any damage. You can actually install Linux without a single web browser and it will work perfectly fine, depending on what you are trying to set the box up for. Linux can actually run on as few as about 4-6 processes.

Windows, on the other hand, is what is known as a monolithic operating system. There are several extraneous programs, like Internet Explorer, that are tied to the kernel in such a way that they will break the operating system if they are compromised. Have you ever noticed that you cannot uninstall IE6? In fact, in XP Service Pack 3, you can't even uninstall IE7 anymore. It is part of the kernel of the operating system. Even if you go and manually rip Internet Explorer out of the system, you will break Windows in such a way as to require a reinstall. Vista has made some improvements and moved more towards a modular setup, but there is still way to much installed in Vista at the kernel level for it to be much more secure than its predicessor. That is why it was cracked within 60 (or possible 30) days. I can't remember the exact time.

The reason I keep bringing up the kernel is because in the industry, the kernel, and everything in it, is automatically considered secure. Only Microsoft knows why they think their browser is secure enough to be put in the kernel, though a better explaination is to say that they didn't know how to properly secure the browser and thus stuck it in the kernel so by default, it was "secure". Linux, being modular, leaves the security of all the modules (or other programs) up to the creators of those programs. Firefox is an example of a more secure browser, but it still is only a module that doesn't install into the kernel of Linux operating systems, and thus, if it breaks, or gets broken into, will not affect the kernel so much.

Don't get me wrong, there are still things that can break the kernel, and if you don't have proper security in place, then someone can break into your box, no matter what OS you are running and take over your system.

Always make sure you are using strong password policies. I recommend 8 or more characters for passwords with letters, numbers, and special characters. I also recommend changing these passwords regularly. You should also limit what users have access to what system programs.

As far as what flavor you should use ... that's entirely up to you. I recommend getting several popular versions and trying them all out. I am certified on Red Hat, so I would tend to recommend that, Fedora or CentOS. I've not used ubuntu, though it is a popular system for more experienced users. From what I understand, it's the flavor of choice for hackers.

I've said enough already. I will let someone else give their input now! ;)

~regards, and my apologies for taking too much room.

[code_m]

I use linux for a variety of reasons. The main one being flexibility.

Quite simply you can do anything with linux if your patient.

If you need help with commands just find a book... I found a very useful book from borders for 10 bucks. Though most were running 30 bucks and up.

There are alternitives to Gnome and KDE, so if your computer is slow, don't lose hope.

I personally run Puppy Linux all the time (Dingo 4.00, using Xorg and JWM on a PC with a 700Mhz CPU and 128 MB RAM). It does have the ability to compile, though you need an extra file to do so, and I have not had much success. I run it for the main reason it was DESIGNED to run as a Live CD. Puppy has the option to create a personal storage file so you can run it like it installed system without need to partion anything, just copy some files. I also use it for this reason because it's like having a Pen install that you still boot with CD, so I can use the SAME system anywhere I go.

I would suggest that you get Bluefish editor as well. It can edit many web languages all in syntax color to help you out. This way you can download an example file and understand it a tad faster.

When it comes to installing software on any Linux distro, they have an upside and a downside. On the upside, most have pre-compiled software (packages) that can just be downloaded and installed in seconds. On the downside, there is a lot of software out that is dependent on other software or Libraries, so these must be installed to use that software. More even yet on the downside, if you don't find what your looking for in a package, you must compile it yourself and almost always a source install is dependent on other libraries. DO NOT LET THIS SCARE YOU OFF... I AM JUST WARNING YOU.

Some definite sites to look at:

http://puppylinux.org
http://www.linux.org
http://linux.com
http://distrowatch.com

Some distro's to look for:

- Puppy Linux
- DSL . . . . . . (abbreviated for language)
- Fedora
- OpenSuSE
- PClinuxOS
- Dyne:bolic
- NibleX
- OpenSolaris (not technically linux, but uses the same kernel)
- Belenix . . . . (Shoot off OpenSolaris, but still quite different)

I do not suggest Ubuntu... unless your going for superb compatibly. Just not a great distro, too "family PC" oriented I think.

[pghcollectibles]

i have burned this to a disk :CentOS-5.2-i386-LiveCD.iso (http://mirror.nuvio.com/pub/centos/5.2/isos/i386/CentOS-5.2-i386-LiveCD.iso)

the hard drive i want to run linux on, currently has xp pro installed but i am ready to wipe it.

anyone care to walk me through? i know this isnt technically hm stuff but i feel like im evolving somehow. im turning into a penguin ;) plus i like the support here and i know there is knowledgeable people here.

[Falcon1986]

CentOS-5 documentation (http://www.centos.org/docs/5/)

[pghcollectibles]

i will certainly be reading that as i get a chance but that is definitely not a walk through. i was hoping for a few shortcuts perhaps

[shadmego]

What kind of shortcuts are you looking for?

[pghcollectibles]

i guess the fastest way to install the os and wipe the drive clean. if it can be done with lesser steps. id love it. i can hook it up externally and run an fdisk to erase or something im affraid to do anything "format" related as long as micro is still the os because i dont see how they could get me to the right format. i dont know if the live disk thing is what i want though there are also bin downloads 1-6 so i guess ill add that as one of my questions: what do i need for software?

im working on the vista machine--from sam's club LOL and i chose roxio rather than windows to burn the disk but the first time it didnt stop windows from booting and it looked like it was just a "directory" the next time i told it to be a bootable disk and it did and upon rebooting it said no operating system and when i viewed it with windows it didnt show me the files in explorer but it showed how much space they were taking up and 0 free space. i didnt think to have checked the command prompt but now im at work so itll have to wait but im just not sure if i have the right data and how to get the data to the other box.

wow. lets just start with that i guess. i couldnt find that info yet and im on chapter three now

[shadmego]

Linux "Live Disks" are versions of Linux that can run off cds or dvds. By design, they are not intended to be installed on a hard drive like Windows, or a regular, hard drive version of Linux. Knoppix is probably the most popular Live distro out there, but there are also several hundred more to choose from.

What you will probably want is to download the bin 1-6 files. Burn these to a disk using any ISO capable software (I like Nero) but there are other open source programs that do the same thing. Once you finish that, make sure your computer is set to boot from the optical drive first, before the hard drive and install. You shouldn't have to reformat anything on the XP machine because walking through an installation of Linux will wipe everything out by default. All you will have to do is select the partition on which to install the OS.

As for your entire last paragraph, I didn't get what you were trying to say so I will leave it at that.

~regards

[pghcollectibles]

thats what i wanted to know i think: if the linux would wipe the drive for me or if i had to do it seperately and about the live cd.

i like nero too but havent installed it to my vista machine yet... looks like its time. thats the "family computer" now

so the bin folders (probably bin1) will contain the initial booting files? ill try that and will be back if i have any problems of course.

[sjlplat]

I've used a variety of Linux distros. Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware...They're all pretty comparable. The one that really seems to distance itself from the mainstream distros in terms of elegance and ease of use is Mint. As a beginner, I would highly recommend trying it. You can download it at http://www.linuxmint.com/

[code_m]

also, many linux distros ask you to "format" the disk. Very few will save to NTFS (XP Default), some will format for you, but others ask you to do it.

Normally all you need to do it is to start up as a Live disk and run "GParted" (If your on a pre-2004 machine it may take quite a while to probe your machine). Then you select your drive, normally "hda" and the delete all partions (XP uses many hidden partions) and then create "new" ... after that select "ext2" or Linux format. Then simply hit "apply" ... now with a successful format, make sure to flag it "boot"

Once your disk is formated continue with your install.

NOTE: all linux installers are different, so you must read as you go. I know for a fact that DSL (Knoppix based) with format automatically during install. While Ubuntu (again yuck) give you a few options, including installing to a folder on your hard drive for a super simple dual boot.

[hmongfreedom]

hi, every one.

I am looking for this topic too. I want to switch from window to linux, but I don't know what linux distributions is good for me.

I have read this topic and understand little bit but not sure how I can install linux on my computer.

if you have any experience abut linux, please share with us.

thanks.
Hmong

[shadmego]

I feel it has to be said ...

This is a forum designed to provide user-to-user help on issues related to accounts hosted by Hostmonster. In other words, questions specifically related to your website or general web master related questions concerning accounts on Hostmonster servers is what we are looking for.

Since this is not a thread dealing with Hostmonster related issues, it should be closed.

Having said that, I feel this thread is sufficiently worthy and contains enough information to be helpful to anyone with similar questions. Since the potential for learning exists in this thread, I will leave it open but I am going to moderate this thread heavily and any post not directly related to this topic will be removed.

Any user that blatantly disregards the above statement will find their account filled with infractions and possibly banned. (I say this for those that would attempt to test my benevolence! ;))

I am a huge Linux fan and am going to be hitting it hard and heavy this fall. I have written a paper based on my first post in this thread and welcome anyone interested in making the conversion from Windows to Linux.

If you feel you are a beginner wanting to attempt a move to Linux from Windows, I recommend you read this article (http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT5272648562.html). It says basically everything I would say about Linux for beginners and provides links to several different versions.

Asking for steps on how to install Linux is not a good idea because it's an impossible question to answer properly. What I would suggest is to find a distribution that you want to try and then read the documentation on it to learn the steps of installation. Most versions come with installers similar to Windows in that you will be asked several basic questions like how you want to partition your hard drive, what local you are in, what time zone, etc and user/password information for your account. However each distro is different enough to not be able to get much more into detail about a general Linux installation without knowing the specific version of choice.

I hope this helps

~regards

P.S. I'm quite serious about keeping this thread on topic.

[DataMan]

Staying on topic...

I'd like to offer the following:

1. For the initial "drive-by" go the LiveCD route.
2. If you have adequate disk space, go ahead and install a couple of distro's to really kick the tires.
3. I always recommend pre-configuring the hd partitions BEFORE installing. There are just too many "oops" that happen when the in-experienced (and sometimes the experienced :)) go the route of the installer partition setup.
4. When you've settled on a workable distro, you can blow away the other distro's in your partition lineup, adjust your boot loader and re-claim the disk space.

Here's a link for a good open source partition editor that I would recommend to anyone. It's free, it works and it's a GUI. You boot to it so you don't have the issue of trying to manipulate a partition that you are currently active in.

http://gparted.sourceforge.net/index.php

Back to your original question. I have had successful LAMP instances running in either/or Kubuntu (KDE) and Ubuntu (Gnome) the last 3-4 years. It's incredibly easy to get the services running once the ops is up and running. I use these servers both for work and personal use.

Hope this is of help.

DataMan

p.s. By the way, I currently have 3 different Linux ops /versions + 1 Windows ops that I can boot to (not using VM).